Sunday, December 2, 2007

"Exposing Feminism" Exposes a Rational Idea

Exposing Feminism had a good post called Feminists! How to QUASH the Mens Rights Movement!

Talk to us. Reason with us and let us reason with you.
Acknowledge what feminism has done to the detriment of society and men in general. Address these things and the concerns of men everywhere.

You don’t even have to submit any of your pro female concerns or freedoms! You just have to take ours in addition to them!
Do this, and both Feminism and the Mens Rights Movement will have no real reason to exist in their present forms!
We could start a new movement together! Perhaps we could call it something pretty like ‘The New Humanist Movement’!
Wouldn’t that be nice?
That’s all there is to it. Easy when you know how,
eh?

So, what do you think?

Here's what I think:

It's a great idea... why not start it now?

The truth is that you MRA guys are out in left field with your paranoid preoccupation with the ruthless Feminist Bogeywoman who wants to hang all men's penises from her belt as trophies. If she exists at all, she is marginal at best with no real effect on anything but your imaginations.

In the real world, the vast majority of women don't go around considering themselves Feminists. I don't. Most likely your mother doesn't, nor do your sisters, your girlfriend and/or your wife. Women are as much - or more- in competition with each other as we are with men.

Exposing Feminism is on the right track with this post. We are all people... selfish, egocentric, suspicious, petty, vindictive but also loving, faithful, giving and forgiving people. Men and women, we want the same things... to be appreciated, to be loved, to be valued, to be admired, to grow old with someone who makes us feel good about ourselves and who we want to enrich with our love.

These MRA guys act like men and women are adversaries pitched in a battle against one another. No one can win such a battle. The best feeling possible is when a man and a woman are able to face the difficulties of life together.

Who wins the battle when a woman is allowed to use the court system for revenge, drive a man to the point where he kills his entire family in a park on Thanksgiving Day? Do women win? Do men? The only way to fix that problem is to attack it together, as families, as fellow citizens, as Christians, as community members, etc. with the goal to be harmony, justice, and balance.

What do you think? Leave a comment.

20 comments:

Anonymous said...

I'm all for the domination of women and girls (like in the Bible) so... yea feminist anti-guy can believe whatever he or she want's. I'm anti-women's rights.

Anonymous said...

"We are all people... selfish, egocentric, suspicious, petty, vindictive "

The problem with men today is that they aren't selfish and vindictive enough. If they were there would be no women's rights... yet they continue to strive to be less selfish and less vindictive. It's like running away from victory and towards failure.

Hint: if you don't think of yourself no one else is going to think of you either most likely.

They'll never learn ofcourse.

jw said...

I have no problem with the concept as a general concept.

I do rather doubt that feminists or women in general are willing to do away with hatred of men. There's too much to be gained from it and no social cost at all. (Hah! A simple 'Wealth of Nations' matter.)

Robin: To get to this point you want, you would need to make changes. Calling all of the MRA's based on the behavior of the minority of badly behaving MRA's simply would not do. The same would apply to not standing against hatred of men. The same would apply to trying to fix violence by only looking at the female victim & male offender part of violence.

Do you see what I am saying?

Combining the two gender movements would involve getting rid of things that women NORMALLY do and do without ever thinking about it.

There's a joke which is sometimes used to describe the men's movements: "A man is walking through the woods. He says something. There's no woman there to hear him. Is he still wrong?"

While that always-wrong isn't always true, it is true so VERY often that it is defining of our culture. That would have to change and I don't know if it will or even can change.

Let's just look at ONE item on my list of things that need to change: The treatment of male rape survivors and the sexism dumped onto those of us with female offenders. Women have the power to change this and women refuse to use that power. Women have the dominance and the press access, women refuse to use either.

If I talk about my experience in a woman's presence she will usually give me a long, loud (and invariably inaccurate) lecture on theory of sex assault centering on her own sex assault experience.

This is EXACTLY the wrong thing to do with a male survivor and a quite vicious thing to do with a man who was attacked by a woman. No amount of talk changes that! It's been this way for decades and it would take women considering men as fellow human beings for it to change. I really rather doubt that our women in general are willing to make that change to seeing their menfolk as fellow human beings.

Robin Steele said...

JW: I am thinking about your point, but I guess I just don't get why we don't say: this is not the way one person should treat another. Why put the emphasis on female rape victims vs. male victims? It should be that there should be understanding and compassion for ALL victims of sexual assault, with a needed emphasis on education of abuse of males, also. This will get more consensus than an adversarial stance that puts women in the position of defending the progress made against violence against women.

I think this Feminist Enemy is a stumbling block and straw man. Women care about their brothers, sons, boyfriends, fathers, and husbands. Promoting fairness and justice for them as well will resonate without the anti-feminist rhetoric.

Anonymous said...

Sorry this is a repackaged form of Equity Feminism. Way back to the 1960s Feminists flatly stated in publications like Ms. for example. That they wanted Flexibility in Gender Roles. Men could stay home with and assume the Caretaker role while Women worked. Remember the movie "Kramer vs. Kramer". Dustin Hoffman was a much younger Man.

The truth is Feminists will not compromise. They are about power and retaining it. You might as well ask a Lion to become a Vegetarian. Its not going to happen. Feminists have made it clear they do not want to compromise.

Every time I read this rubbish I laugh. It is an attempt and a feeble one to get Men to play nice and leave the Gender Issues to Women. Go back to work guys and leave the Family issues to us. We know best.

Only when the system completely implodes and Women have no options will they come to the table and try to cut a deal. Only then. Men meanwhile must adopt Coping strategies for the un natural life and choices they are being asked to make. My advice is simple. Men, Gents cope the best you can.

Bob said...

Sure, Robin, when "Men's Studies" is equqlly funded and taught in over 700 US colleges and universiteis, you might have a point.

But why wait. Go to your local college or University and demand equal teaching for men. It's already required by law, Title IX.

Until then, your pussy power whining will fall on deaf ears.

Bob said...

Stalin said, "I think this Feminist Enemy is a stumbling block and straw man. Women care about their brothers, sons, boyfriends, fathers, and husbands."

Lots of flying sows out tonight.

ROFLMAO!!!

Only in the twisted mind of a feminazi misandrist.

It's only 3 days until
International Marc Lepine Day

Let the feminazi worry their hate filled minds about that.

jw said...

Robin: Yes, it would be better if we talked of all sex assault victims fairly. For that to happen, there would need to be a feeling that the male survivors deserve equality and that doesn't exist. How does one fix that?

You say women care about their menfolk. I've heard that many times before and I look around and say "Where are the signs?" There aren't many! Not too many at all. Women may well know that men are in trouble, that doesn't change the actions or the attitudes: It also doesn't translate into any willingness to take action to fix the problem.

There was a big UK study just reported in the Guardian about only 1 in 4 kids seeing their father as close family. Look at women's comments! "Men are abusive" "Men are deadbeats" "Men are ..." Compassion? None. Human Decency? Very little.

It's like that pretty well everywhere. It is an attitude problem of massive scale and it is getting worse. How does one change it? It'll take at least thirty and maybe well over sixty years just to stop making it worse. Then at least as long to fix the problem. Do we have that long before Bob and MikeUSA are EVERY man? Maybe not, probably not.

You say "That's not how to treat people." That's true. Now take it a step further "What do you do about it?"

It is simple to say that's not right, it is HARD to fix a that's-not-right! In this case it is getting harder every minute.

Many words ... a great many words: All saying "I do not know what to do!"

Masculist Man said...

Calling all of the MRA's based on the behavior of the minority of badly behaving MRA's simply would not do.

Why do us alledged "bad" MRA's embrace a militant attitude?

I believe you have already answered that:


Let's just look at ONE item on my list of things that need to change: The treatment of male rape survivors and the sexism dumped onto those of us with female offenders. Women have the power to change this and women refuse to use that power. Women have the dominance and the press access, women refuse to use either.

This is EXACTLY the wrong thing to do with a male survivor and a quite vicious thing to do with a man who was attacked by a woman. No amount of talk changes that! It's been this way for decades and it would take women considering men as fellow human beings for it to change. I really rather doubt that our women in general are willing to make that change to seeing their menfolk as fellow human beings.

You say women care about their menfolk. I've heard that many times before and I look around and say "Where are the signs?" There aren't many! Not too many at all. Women may well know that men are in trouble, that doesn't change the actions or the attitudes: It also doesn't translate into any willingness to take action to fix the problem.

There was a big UK study just reported in the Guardian about only 1 in 4 kids seeing their father as close family. Look at women's comments! "Men are abusive" "Men are deadbeats" "Men are ..." Compassion? None. Human Decency? Very little.

It's like that pretty well everywhere. It is an attitude problem of massive scale and it is getting worse. How does one change it? It'll take at least thirty and maybe well over sixty years just to stop making it worse. Then at least as long to fix the problem. Do we have that long before Bob and MikeUSA are EVERY man? Maybe not, probably not.

Robin Steele said...

jw said... You say "That's not how to treat people." That's true. Now take it a step further "What do you do about it?"

It is simple to say that's not right, it is HARD to fix a that's-not-right! In this case it is getting harder every minute.

Many words ... a great many words: All saying "I do not know what to do!"


I agree with everything you say, with the possible exception of "...it is getting harder every minute."

This is not an unprecedented situation - or even anything new. It requires the same non-violent, educational and communication effort undertaken by every group that feels it's being treated unfairly and pushes for change, including the civil rights movement, the women's rights movement, and others. I think a step back and a deaf ear to all this anti-feminist nonsense reveals that it's not nearly as difficult as many other causes for a few reasons.

The first reason is that everyone can relate to the men's rights issues, as we all have men we love and care about, whether sons, brothers, uncles, fathers, etc. And many people have seen the unfairness first or secondhand. The family structure is in an upheaval and we're just sorting out how to cope with a whole new ball game. Few will dispute that children need a healthy relationship with fathers and mothers.

The second advantage is the Internet. MRAs complain that Feminists have funding, and they don't. Anybody notice that we now have at our disposal - nearly for free - the most powerful communication tool ever available? Any one with the most basic abilities can create a blog for free and have their words, images or video visible around the world in seconds. Email communication is an amazingly powerful tool that's practically free.

It's simple, but not easy. First, you take baby steps. Create an image for the movement as reasonable, caring people trying to fix an imbalance that hurts EVERYONE. Pick some obvious problems for starters, the ones easiest to gain a consensus for. Create a reasonable, documented and compelling case for change. Plan and execute email campaigns, coordinated blog networks that praise and criticize those who have something to gain or lose (politicians). Praise the places and people who are doing it right.

I think the very first step is for reasonable MRAs to loudly and vehemently denounce the Haters like Masculist Man, Bob, MikeeUSA... If only as a symbolic gesture to say "This is NOT what we're about. We're not anti-woman. We're not interested in 'winning' some violent gender war. We want to work to promote fairness and heal families. And here's where we have to start..."

I truly believe that most people are not even aware of these issues, and once they're educated, they'll endorse changes that are fair.

Anonymous said...

It's pretty obvious that "Exposing Femimism" is NOT a men's activist web site. They pander to feminist hate such as "Men Can Stop Rape" and delete comments by real men's advocates. EF is another feminist faux men's site.

jw said...

Robin! All of the things you speak of ARE being done! All of them have been done for years now. Do you what has changed? Things are getting worse in most areas and now we have to deal with people writing hate campaigns in the newspapers!

Oh there are a few successes. The advertising people are now getting the hint that fathers aren't going to tolerate hatred of men in commercials. If the man haters do not fight back soon we should win that one.

Even there, in misandry, there are big important fights we are almost ensured to lose. Take here in Ontario. It's clear that the McGuinty government will introduce a bill to fight gender hate messages (on t-shirts and other consumer goods) and that that bill will be Misogyny ONLY! Even though males have, by FAR, the greater need for protection, only the females will be protected. Any action we take is defined as hatred of females! Unless Ontario's females stand up and fight for their menfolk McGuinty will pass the bill and pass it female only.

What are the odds of Ontario's women standing up for their sons and husbands? BAD! Very bad.

How do I or any other man get around that?

I don't know. I really do not know.

How do we get around people like you telling us the OBVIOUS? Telling us to do the things we are already doing? I don't know!

Anonymous said...

'Anonymous said...
It's pretty obvious that "Exposing Femimism" is NOT a men's activist web site. They pander to feminist hate such as "Men Can Stop Rape" and delete comments by real men's advocates. EF is another feminist faux men's site.'

It is 'pretty obvious' to me that this comment is from someone who doesn't like my moderation policy (no misogynistic or misandric comments, MRAs and feminists can post).

Exposing Feminism promotes *discussion*. This is not the same as advocating feminism!

Those who can formulate rational and constructive arguments have no reason to fear deletion of comments there.

http://exposingfeminism.wordpress.com/

Robin Steele said...

jw said: Robin! All of the things you speak of ARE being done!... now we have to deal with people writing hate campaigns in the newspapers!
...How do we get around people like you telling us the OBVIOUS? Telling us to do the things we are already doing? I don't know!


You have NOT already waged an effective communications campaign. You have NOT already done so for years. If you had, you wouldn't be in the situation you're in.

There's a self-defeating "dichotomy" (for lack of better word) with men that even you seem to be stymied by. I mean this as an observation, not an insult. You simultaneously are admittedly unsuccessful at achieving your goals, and at a loss for what to do, but also have an arrogant, know-it-all attitude that keeps you from considering helpful ideas.

Your statement All of the things you speak of ARE being done! pinpoints a key problem. Yes, Men have a website and have for years(Angry Harry). Women have a website (Feministing.com) that's three years younger. Does that mean they've done the same thing? The women's site has 7 times the traffic, thousands more comments, tons of links to it, active and lively participation, and generates funds. It has power. Read my Angry Harry vs. Feministing.com comparisons.

Try taking a step back and seeing this with new eyes. You say: "...now we have to deal with people writing hate campaigns in the newspapers!"

How is your letter writing campaign going? Those stories are a GOOD thing because they give you an opportunity to respond, disprove, expose with a campaign of well-crafted letters continually sent to the newspaper, with comments posted to the newspaper's website, with call-ins and appearances on talk-radio shows (always eager to fill air time), with protests at the newspaper's offices, with campaigns refuting columnists sexist views and demands for their removal if necessary, with your own blog and email campaigns.

Stop looking for a magic bullet. there's no easy way, but there is a way. Learn how others accomplish their goals. The NRA is a very male organization and they've been able to enact and control major legislation despite millions of compelling reasons for their initiatives to be defeated. Learn how those bastards did it in the early days.

What you're really saying is Robin! We have already done a half-assed job of those things for years and it's not working! Why tell us the obvious when it's obvious we're too lazy to do it?

Anonymous said...

David Usher has addressed this issue before. The very nature of Men is to be independent and to do their own thing. Whenever Women have become involved in Men's Movement organizations it has been a disaster. Nothing but in fighting happened. And some individuals used it as an opportunity to sell Books, or get their egos Stroked. It amounted to a Circle Jerk.

Results not reasons. When a figure arises who has the initiative plan, money, and organization and ramrods through legislation or political power. Things will change.

Men are voicing finally their frustrations with the current status quo. And they have every right to do so. Men are also enablers of Feminism.

Those who think compromise are possible are not paying attention. The Online Dating Rights group hired a Feminist Attorney to represent them in their initial challenge with IMBRA. It failed miserably. They lacked Strategic Thinking, Business Saavy and common sense.

I find it amusing that an obvious and virulently anti Male site that identifies a portal Mensnewsdaily.com as a Hate site is lecturing Men on how to succeed at promoting the Men's movement. Its almost comical.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous 10:27 AM said...

"Whenever Women have become involved in Men's Movement organizations it has been a disaster. Nothing but in fighting happened."



Yeah..kinda like Steele cunt here. Her main impetus is the exact same thing with her misandrist troll blog.

Bob said...

Anonymous said: "It's pretty obvious that "Exposing Feminism" is NOT a men's activist web site."

EF said, "It is 'pretty obvious' to me that this comment is from someone who doesn't like my moderation policy (no misogynistic or misandric comments, MRAs and feminists can post). Exposing Feminism promotes *discussion*. This is not the same as advocating feminism!

EF confirms the original anonymous comment. EF affirms that it is NOT a men's activist web site. EF says the "promote discussion" which as she points out, is not the same as advocating a man's agenda. EF admits that EF is NOT a men's advocacy web site.

Thanks for the confirmation.

Robin Steele said...

Anonymous finds it funny that I would be sharing ideas on how to further men's rights. What's hard to believe is that you wouldn't welcome all the help you could get.

According to Bob Allen, Masculists are almost completely powerless. He contends that Feminists have:
- training departments at over US 700 colleges
- training departments at hundred of foreign colleges
- advocate divisions in every US Federal agency
- advocate divisions in most western countries
- Domination of K-12 education throughout the USA
-dominant voting power in every US jurisdiction
- a century and a half of media domination
- control over the education of young boys and girls

The World According to Bob is a dismal one for Men's rights. Maybe you should be open to advice from what Bob believes is the dominant gender.

Stephen said...

The feminist movement is on the way out. There is no way it can continue to flourish. The cancer (MRM) has set in and there is no turning back. Even teen aged men are aware that feminism is a crock. Feminists destroyed marriage and society and now millions of feminist spinsters are going to end up raising cats. Men are becoming more aware and the backlash is building. The "all women are victims" angle is played out and fewer and fewer men are taking the bait. We are going to see more and more aggressive male rage and vengeance because feminism pushed men to the very edge and we will have no more of it. Men are the stronger sex physically and emotionally and if you think women will go on abusing men with impunity then you are a hard-core dreamer. Women never should have picked this fight because men are naturally formidable opponents. Feminism also cannot stand because it's foundation is made of sand. But the MRM's foundation is made of truth and facts. Two things that feminists dare not deal with. I eagerly and confidently look forward to the collapse of feminism.

Robin Steele said...

Stephen said: ...The cancer (MRM) has set in and there is no turning back....

Yes, the Feminists are shaking in their stiletto-heeled boots. How could they not be intimidated by supporters who characterize their own movement as a "cancer."

Anyone wonder why we've made so little progress in securing men's rights?

feminist blogs

Feministe

Bitch. Ph.D.