Saturday, November 17, 2007

Men's Rights Advocates Attack Poll Exploring Their Stance on Violence

MRM Feeding Frenzies Aren't Pretty.

I do not belong to any feminist groups, and actually don't even know enough about them to know whether I am pro- or anti- feminism. I believe in equality and fairness to both genders, and believe that hate and violence just leads to more hate and violence.

When I started this blog, I spoke out against some individuals who actively advocated rape, murder and sex with minors. One man called for public lynchings of police, burning down rape crisis centers and joked about rapes and murders of young girls. Another advocates murder/suicide attacks on women's centers and lists people he believes should be killed, including a federal prosecutor and state attorney general. These individuals are linked to and associated with the Men's Rights Movement (MRM). These supposed "Men's Rights" proponents have assailed my site with insults, vile name-calling, profanity and personal threats.

Some MRM members expressed that the views of these individuals did not represent the Men's Rights Movement or most Men's Rights Activists (MRAs). On one hand, I thought this must be true since these individuals seemed so extreme, and were known only by fake names. On the other hand, the MRAs refused to actively disagree or censure even the most vile of their hate speech. For my own interest and to give MRAs an opportunity to clarify their stand on violence, I used the stock GOOGLE poll built in to Blogger to ask: As a Member of the MRM, do you condone violence against women? The results of the six day poll were 46% YES 53% NO.

The obviously non-scientific, one-click survey wasn't expected to reveal any significant results, and it didn't. However, the discussion of me and the poll on the MRM discussion forum was more revealing than the poll itself. Here are a group of people who do not know me, who have obviously not read my posts, launching vicious attacks and insults, hatching conspiracy theories and imagining evil hidden agendas, all over a harmless 1-Click poll. Someone flashed the word "Feminist" in front of them which I guess has the same effect as emptying the chum bucket in the carp pond.

Comments from Antimisandry.com:

Kargan303: Hey Bros. I got an intresting e-mail about a feminist who is saying that Men's Right actvists are promoating violence and rape, here's the message I got, I think it might be in out best intrest to act on this and expose this lying femanazi.... What a fucking hypocret

bola: Re: Femanazi says MRA's permote violence and rape of women... She can manipulate the outcome as much as she likes. I don't think we should allow a dumb bitch like this to put us on the defensive. It's a shaming tactic after all, ignore it. Nobody's going to believe an outrageous claim like that.

KellyMac: She's rigged that poll, anyway, to show the no's just barely sneaking past the yes's.

Kargan303: Bola, Kelly, I see what you are saying and I can see how she's cooking the books so to speak, I just thought that me fellow borthers and sisters in arms should be made aware of this pycho hagga beast because I have no doubts that we'll be seeing more of this rabid femnuts soon.

Best thing to do with these rabid loons is nuke'em thill they glow and shoot in the dark LOL

John Dias: People, as a professional webmaster I urge you to IGNORE THIS POLL. She can record your IP address, while changing your responses. You could do yourself some serious damage, not to mention playing straight into her hands.

paul parmenter: Robin Steele is just like the rest of them; useful only for gauging what stage of dementia or desperation the feminazis have reached...

yohan: About the poll, everytime I restart my computer, I might vote again and again... This site is somewhat feminist, but also against the bible, and totally narrow-minded... To claim, that MRAs are promoting violence and rape is slander and propaganda.

Although I've read some interesting threads and even a few insightful or valid comments at antimisandry, it is mostly a recreation of a childhood playground, dominated by bullies and populated with timid onlookers eager to see the next person attacked, piling on themselves and getting their kicks in when it's safe to do so.

These few comments show the elements of the feeding frenzy that kill meaningful dialogue, including:

Paranoia: "Professional webmaster" John Dias says "I urge you to IGNORE THIS POLL... She can record your IP address, while changing your responses." I can also read your thoughts and make your driver's license expire at will. I use Blogger, I don't have access to IP addresses and if I did I wouldn't know what to do with them.

Irrationality: "She can manipulate the outcome as much as she likes." "She's rigged that poll, anyway, to show the no's just barely sneaking past the yes's." "everytime I restart my computer, I might vote again and again..." "It's a shaming tactic after all, ignore it." The majority of MRAs in the poll said they do NOT promote violence. If I were willing to restart my computer 53 times as they suggest, wouldn't I show they DID promote violence?

Fabrication: "Robin Steele is just like the rest of them; useful only for gauging what stage of dementia or desperation the feminazis have reached. I see she thinks she is waging some kind of war against the men's movement, and apparently thinks she and her sistas in arms can win it." paul parmenter "In some ways I pity the femanazis, they are so twisted up with their own self hate and their hatered for men that they are going to wind up all alone and childess save for their cats, pity the cats " Kargan303

Cowardice: Kargan303 puts up the first post about my poll encouraging participation, then apologizes when bullied: "Bola, Kelly, I see what you are saying... I just thought that me fellow borthers and sisters in arms should be made aware of this pycho hagga beast..." Funny he mentions the Beast. I was already thinking of The Lord of the Flies.

17 comments:

Anonymous said...

Awwww, you're SUCH a victim, you barf bitch!

Bob said...

Isn't it amazing how a blog focusing on sexist hate can generate such resistance.

A woman of wisdom would take a lesson from all those comments. Don't bet on Ms. Steele doing so.

jw said...

Is there venom in gender? YES! Are there crazies in gender? YES! Are there men who want to hurt women? YES! Are there women who want to hurt men? YES!

I agree that there are angry men (and women) in the men's rights forums. Just like there are angry women (and men) in feminism. The ONLY difference is that women are free to demand violence and discrimination against men, while men must be held to a certain standard of behavior.

Due to this, there are a large number of men who do not believe ANYTHING any woman says until she has proven herself 100% on side with the men. That is sad, wrong, maybe even dangerous ... it is also reality. I wish I could say something nicer.

I agree with you in taking a stand against the badly behaving men. I have have no problem with that. However, as almost no stand is taken against the much more common badly behaving women any stand against the men is counter-productive: It makes things worse. Once again I wish I could say nicer things.

This is politics at its rawest, at its most basic level, at the primal level.

Even among us moderates you have a LONG road to travel in gaining trust. Take myself as an example, you want to reduce violence against women? OK, such people almost universally desire to harm male victims, almost without exception. Why would I trust you? Think about it, the odds are you want to hurt me and other men who have been badly hurt by women. That's simple odds and hard to argue around.

Your post here, it too argues against trusting you. It is FAR too inflammatory and far too much steeped in a few radicals. The majority are not seen in this post. Plus, you're going to have a hard road with this post as I have not seen similar attacks on the much more common hatred of men.

So?

Robin Steele said...

I agree with you in taking a stand against the badly behaving men. I have have no problem with that.
Taking a stand against the crazies is all I've done here, JW. I haven't spoken against men's rights, against moderates, or any argument not based on hate or violence. If you take an objective trip through the blog you'll see that. In fact the poll was an opportunity to show the crazies did not represent the mainstream.

Sections that were being misinterpreted as attacks on men I removed (and got criticized for removing it.) I realized there might be more to IMBRA than I had perceived, so I removed my links to it (again, got criticized for it).

I respect your comment because it shows that you are open to exchanging ideas, not just namecalling and hatespeech. I am not afraid to acknowledge your valid points. I am not afraid to speak out against hatespeech against men.

That reasonable MRAs tolerate the crazies who - like it or not - represent the MRM is a serious barrier to progress and dialogue.
They do more damage to your cause than any radical feminist.

Anonymous said...

Robin,

I always wonder why Feminists prefer to articulate their demands that Men obey them in the safe West. When real Oppression of Women is happening in Central Asia, Iran, and the Middle East. Where Moslem Women are treated like Property, honor killings are frequent. And Women are forced into marriages they don't want?

I consider Feminists to be Moral Cowards. Where it is easy to scream, stamp their Jimmy Choo clad Feet and demand entitlements. Whilst their Moslem, Hindu, Latin, and Asian Sisters face real hardship.

Swedish Women are beaten and Gang Raped in Stockholm. And Feminist hardly raise a whisper to this.

The reason for the rabid nature of Feminists is simple. Male Rejection in the US. Where Feminism is a hybrid animal. With a Leftist/Socialist/Communist pedigree fed by Conservative Business and Trusts.

What makes Feminists mad? That they cannot make Men love them, want them, want to have children with them. Our concerns, problems, issues are irrelevant.

Feminists are like the Shaker religious order. Who forbade their members from Sex and having children. And who died out. Feminism is a biological dead end. Everywhere it is embraced Family Life, is dying. Birth rates are plummeting. And Moslems are outbreeding us.

Make sure you wear your Habib when you got to Eurabia. Otherwise you may be considered to be "uncovered meat". These words to describe non Muslim dress were actually used by a Imam in Australia, last year.

Khankrumthebulgar

As to being a Christian Nutjob sorry. I am a Nichiren Buddhist.

Nam-Myoho-Renge-Kyo

Robin Steele said...

Khankrumthebulgar:

Don't you have something else you're supposed to be doing?

Robin Steele said...

Why are you talking about feminists here? I don't profess to be a feminist.

Perhaps YOU should look a little closer to home... and stop supporting and posting on sites that advocate violence, rape and pedophilia. How can you, supposedly a father and supposedly a Buddhist, associate, link to and support the site of a man who advocates the rape of little girls, refers to them as little c*nts, and refers to the rapes preceding their murders as "getting laid."
You're no Buddhist and, as far as I'm concerned, you're no father.

Bob said...

The time for "Peace" was before the femiNazi started the gender war against boys and men. The time for peace was before a million men died and fifty million families were destroyed. The time for peace was before a million men were pushed homeless onto the streets. A time for peace was before the very violent oppressive war against men was started and persecuted by the evil feminist tyranny.

Now is too late for peace until the evil of feminism is rolled back, their armies are defeated, their occupation of our society eradicated, our families are restored, and our children are again safe.

If you want peace, Stalin, end your support for evil feminist war on men and join the forces for harmony and love.

[We don‘t expect a hate filled old sow to change her curly tail. ]

Alexandra said...

C'mon, admit it, the poll was rigged. You could have invited your hate-mongering feminazi friends to vote in it and skew the results.

Interestingly enough, men, by nature, tend to want to *protect* women, not harm them. In fact, that's one of the reasons why it's not a good idea for women to be in the military, ever think of that?

jw said...

robin steele: I'd disagree that the moderate MRA's tolerate the crazies. Glenn Sacks is after them every chance he gets, same with Dr. Helen Smith. I'm small change in the MRA spectrum these days, yet I've spent a lot of time going after the crazies. That is the same for all of the MRA leaders. It is in saying things like 'we tolerate' that you draw the crazies to you!

The thing you appear not to see is why we have crazies and why their numbers are growing.

Ask yourself why I came here, I saw your blog a fair while ago and ignored it. Why would I came back?

I saw high probability of another hate monger out to hurt innocents and I came here to see how bad it is. OK, it's not as bad as I at first thought and yet still not good.

Just speaking generally about our society: What you face in looking at MRA's is radical distrust built up over years of good reasons not to trust. What we MRA's face is venom, a virulent form of hate with almost no one taking a stand against it: That venom exists in all parts of our society, including Christianity!

So that's what YOU are looking at, radical distrust(1), distrust pushed to the limits of human stinking-thinking. The problem as I see it, HERE, is you are looking too personally at a problem which is society wide. You keep saying "I haven't" and that may be true, I wouldn't know: You miss that you APPEAR to have and that due to radical distrust the appearance becomes the reality.

There's nothing not-fixable here. However, the solution is not as apparent as might be.

The solution must be multi-part and include a lot of "why do they think as they think" coming from both sides.

This is an understanding WHY-people-do-as-they-do issue! Once that understanding is present, the rest falls into place as standard advocacy.

---------
1: You missed the most important part of my previous post. Why would I trust a woman who has all this 'violence against women' stuff on her blog? Women with such almost always seek to hurt we male victims of women's violence. Yet! You missed that.

We cannot heal the wounds without having women understand the size, scope and depth of the distrust issue!

Shattered Men said...

jw said...
robin steele: I'd disagree that the moderate MRA's tolerate the crazies. Glenn Sacks is after them every chance he gets, same with Dr. Helen Smith. I'm small change in the MRA spectrum these days, yet I've spent a lot of time going after the crazies. That is the same for all of the MRA leaders. It is in saying things like 'we tolerate' that you draw the crazies to you!

Robin, again, I do agree with much of what JW said in this last post.

I accept that you were not aware of the SCUM manifestation, but now that you have been made aware of it, what will you do with the information? It is required or at least recommended reading in most Women Study courses on our universities. There are no men's study course and if there were, if they taught half of what these women are being taught, they would be fired.

More important...do some research on the REAL damage the Violence Against Women Act does to both men and women. It is literally destroying our homes and our society all for MONEY.

From what I see, JW and others, myself included would like to see you balance this blog by exposing the female violence that is done LEGALLY under the VAWA.

Check out

http://www.mediaradar.org/

and the information we have on our website on it. This is from googling VAWA on our website:

http://tinyurl.com/3xkpot

ken

Bob said...

Real MEN are not surprised that a pathetic wimp like Shattered Man opposes a strong viable Men's Movement. He's still upset because real men's advocates complained that his dream group "RADAR" supported renewal of VAWA, and worked to imprison another million men.

The voices of real men are opposed to unconstitutional misandrist hate legislation like VAWA, but false men’s organizations like RADAR supported it. Their support was instrumental in the renewal of VAWA because Congressmen could claim that their hate legislation was supported by men’s rights organizations as well as the feminazi. It was a convenient lie for the femiNazi. Quisling men like “Shattered Man” and RADAR work hard to promote and enshrine the “Domestic Violence femiNazi hate program.

Real men don’t believe any of their sniveling femiNazi lies. Real men work to restore the husband’s authority in his home and family. Real men don’t go sniveling and whining to some “Shattered Man” and his “men are victims too feminist support programs. The only way for MEN to oppose feminists and reclaim our homes and families is to oppose feminism. A “me too” approach to misandrist feminist hate does not even begin to oppose the violence being done to men.

Anonymous said...

Ms. Steele you are in no position to dictate orders. In fact I have received notice that the offending post has been removed. Funny the offending post is still on Ginmar's blog. How about you doing the same in return.

As to you not being a Feminist. Please give us all a break. Wow cognitive dissonance at work.

Khankrumthebulgar

Masculist Man said...

Right on about Shattered Men,Bob. They are wimps.

Ken talks about policing others well who polices his ass? Perhaps Christians should be policed. They go on about "turn the other cheek" but in reality they have never practiced this. No,instead they engage in crusades and hold inquistions to torture people into their way of thinking.

When it comes down to it Ken is the lead wimp of the wimps and as wimps they will accomplish nothing. All they do is tear real men down.

jw said...

Calling people wimps or feminazis will not solve problems: Neither will ignoring real harm to innocent men.

Problems are solved by understanding why the problem exists and then using advocacy among the normal people to apply pressure to society's leaders.

Factory said...

Not a feminist...never identified as one, etc.... Hmm, sounds so far like a lot of women out there. Uses feminist group-think, talking points, and terminology...once again, just like a majority of women I know. Lacks any real understanding of issues surrounding the Men's movement, but criticizes it anyway...once again, just like the majority of women I know.

You know, it strikes me that a good portion of women out there trying to have a dialogue with MRA's fit into one of two main camps...that of the feminists - trying to discredit MRA's at every opportunity, obfusticating wherever possible - and those that have no real concept of what is going on, and feel that MRA's are guilty of extreme exaggeration at best, dishonesty at worst.

Let me tell you this: It IS that bad...worse in fact, and we are choked. Really really mad - a level of anger most women never encounter in a general population, and therefore have no idea how to deal with it.

I'll tell you right now, there's no use in trying the tired shaming language...that old canard has actually been turned into a bingo game....cause it's really funny how often women use the same counter to any challenge.

If feminism, or for that matter ANY political/social ideology, had such legitimate concerns....why are they trying to prevent truth from coming to light? Why squash the fact that women commit half of all domestic violence...that overall, men sustain more injury than women in DV, and that women don't generally use physical force, but more psychological means to abuse? If you're a woman, think back to how the female bullies in H.S. acted...THAT is feminism.

Except the source of power for female bullying is threat of ostracizing the victim ("keep talking like that and you'll never get laid"). What feminism, and for that matter women in general, are having a hard time with? Increasingly, men don't care if women "ostracize" them. We don't give a rats ass if this is threatening, or against feminist beliefs, or is exactly what women think. It does NOT matter what women think. We do NOT need feminist support to win. We do NOT need women's support to get justice. We do NOT need to take other's views into consideration.

We do, but we don't NEED to.

That's what escapes women in general. The level of narcissism involved in someone thinking "well, without us there's no way for you to succeed" astounds.

Let me put it to you this way. MRA's are fighting injustice. No one really disputes the injustice exists, only the relative importance thereof. we are making headway, but it's tough when even those who purport to "support" you demand to be able to place limits on what is "acceptable behaviour".

Women are NOT, by and large, experiencing anything even remotely resembling oppression in North America. This is self-evident....the only places where women are "oppressed" is in the advocacy research that has taken the place of actual science.

But here's the thing...the "crazies" you speak of? They're not going away. And women are doing NOTHING to help men..."not their concern" is what we hear most often. Well, I'm definitely moderate in the MRM, but even I am starting to think "then why the fuck should I care about YOU at all?"

THAT mindset, combined with lack of anything even remotely resembling actual consideration from women, WILL result in violence eventually. It's the natural progression of a revolution, and make no mistake, men live under tyrannical rule in the West. The "crazies" will eventually start getting violent unless things change...fast.

You can either help, or hinder...neutrality is a luxury women no longer have.

Bob said...

Well said factory. We men have been "denied" by feminists so often that it doesn't work any more. None of their old tired hate speeches work any more. Let them pound sand.

Bob

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